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I agree completely with Daniel Tyler. Given that so much work has
been developed to codify our movements into one language and that
dialogues exist from East to West coasts, it seems to me that we are
heading for the next step in our evolution: Peer-review and
assessment for those that want to be assessed. Dance companies have
sprung up (Axis Danz, Houston Flyboys, Temple of Poi) and these
companies are laying the foundation for schools of thought. Workshops
bring together different ideas from across the country–we are
teaching each other and it is wonderous.

Issa,I think what you are offering is awesome. Thank you for sharing
your story with us. I am glad you have an opportunity to do what you
love for a living.

I, for one, do feel it is important to hand the art down from teacher
to student as it was passed to me. I felt completely enriched by that
process and have since done the same. However, I have, in the past,
been hired to flag on top of night clubs, at parties, and fund-
raisers. I’ve been paid for sewing, for my flags, and to teach. I
think most of us do it and I guess that makes me just as much "an
opportunistic, money grubbing __________ you fill the blank" as
everyone else.

Louie
aka "Civa"

Ps: Informing us, Issa and future entrepreneurs, is awesome but
spamming–now that does deserve a slap on the wrist!

Hi all, I know this question pops up from time to time but has anyone
found a reliable source of ribs for fan construction? With the
continual growth of the internet, occassionally I find bamboo ribbed
fans that come very close to what I’m looking for. Has anyone else had
any luck?

~Civa

Whether on youtube or any other video hosting platform, if you want
your videos to be seen, may I offer some advice? Tag, tag, tag your
video. Tags are one word descriptors that search engines use to find
videos on the related subject. When you upload your video, there
will be an option to assign tags. You can place anything from your
name to simplistic adjectives or nouns. Keep in mind that these are
usually one word at a time though you may have multiple tags.
Possible tags are:
Flagging
Fanning
Dancing
Circuit-club
Clubbing
Poi
Spinning
Ragging

Again, the sky’s the limit with tags and the more you have the more
hits your bound to get.

Search engines go through a series of protocals when searching and
each have their own priority but regardless of all that, if your
video is titled: "Spinning on Fire Island," and there are no other
tags for it, people searching for "Flagging" are going to miss it
entirely.

Might I also suggest that if you see yourself uploading multiple
videos, include your name as a tag. The more often you are seen, the
more often people will search you out simply by your flag or club
name. Youtube also allows you to create your own account so you can
host all your videos on one page. This is also a good idea.

I offer this suggestion because I often comb through youtube
watching fun videos and I would love to see more of my brothers and
sister flaggers online but with tags, trying to find you is somewhat
of a lost cause!

yours truly!
Civa

Bah! I need an editor!

the last sentence should read:

"I offer this suggestion because I often comb through youtube
watching fun videos and I would love to see more of my brother and
sister flaggers online but with"out" tags, trying to find you is
somewhat of a lost cause!"

and for what its worth: "your" should be ‘you’re" in "the more hits
you’re bound to get."

I should stop using contractions all together!

Cheers,
Civa

— In SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com, "Louie Cortez" <civatateo@…>
wrote:
>
> Whether on youtube or any other video hosting platform, if you
want
> your videos to be seen, may I offer some advice? Tag, tag, tag
your
> video. Tags are one word descriptors that search engines use to
find
> videos on the related subject. When you upload your video, there
> will be an option to assign tags. You can place anything from your
> name to simplistic adjectives or nouns. Keep in mind that these
are
> usually one word at a time though you may have multiple tags.
> Possible tags are:
> Flagging
> Fanning
> Dancing
> Circuit-club
> Clubbing
> Poi
> Spinning
> Ragging
>
> Again, the sky’s the limit with tags and the more you have the
more
> hits your bound to get.
>
> Search engines go through a series of protocals when searching and
> each have their own priority but regardless of all that, if your
> video is titled: "Spinning on Fire Island," and there are no other
> tags for it, people searching for "Flagging" are going to miss it
> entirely.
>
> Might I also suggest that if you see yourself uploading multiple
> videos, include your name as a tag. The more often you are seen,
the
> more often people will search you out simply by your flag or club
> name. Youtube also allows you to create your own account so you
can
> host all your videos on one page. This is also a good idea.
>
> I offer this suggestion because I often comb through youtube
> watching fun videos and I would love to see more of my brothers
and
> sister flaggers online but with tags, trying to find you is
somewhat
> of a lost cause!
>
> yours truly!
> Civa
>

Reading the other posts concerning this subject has lead me to think about our lifestyle in general. Why is it that the gay community at large is stereotypically viewed as being snippy, quick-witted, sarcastic, and outlandishly rude? I think it has a lot to do with our own defense mechanisms. Growing up gay, most of us develop a harsh sarcasm simply because of the negative aspects of a lifestyle we see ourselves in and as a defense, we either toughen our hide to take the abuse and be abusive to those that abuse us (which, by the way, we place more on ourselves than we do others: no one is more homophobic than the homosexual) or learn to live with it as defined in the psychological phenomenon: learned helplessness. This usually results, since no one wants to go around and actually beat the hell out of everyone we face off with, in us developing our sarcastic methods in an attempt to ward off verbal attacks. The problem, however, is that such rudeness does not stop at the outside world. It doesn’t stop at all. Most of us that developed such coping methods have very little control over who gets the dealt the verbal blows. We think ourselves cute or clever because we can shut down others. We think it is our right to say whatever to whomever because "that’s just the kinda guy I am." Unfortunately, people like that usually end up surrounding themselves with other bitter and caustic personalities or end up segregating themselves and like a self-fullfilling prophecy, they say, "See? I told you no one likes me."

This is the kind of sedition that damns our community. In an effort to be funny, we find humor in others faults so as to deflect any scrutiny off of ourselves. I do not say this to merely rebuke the original poster but to highlight that this is something we all do (to some extent anyway.) Mankind continuously demonstrates that it is easier to destroy then to create and us, the gay community, even more so. I am sorry for the comments my community-brother made to you, Dominick. It takes guts to place yourself out on display and even more so to take destructive criticism. As a flagger of many years, might I say that I am glad to see your work. Hang on to those pics (because those flags will eventually wear out) and compare them to your later work. You will see a remarkable difference on your journey one that I?d like to see as well.

Hey guys,
Just wanted to know if there are any myspace addicts out here. I’m a
flagger/fanner in San Antonio and I’m the only one who hits the bars
with any regularity. So needless to say, I’m one lonely kitty out
here. But the reason I’m posting this is not only to connect with
other flagger/fanners on myspace but to also ask permission to use
video on YouTube for my site. You can check out my site at
http://www.myspace.com/civatateo. Keep in mind that MySpace is unregulated
(except by the owners of their pages) and the material presented is
most likely adult material. Mine even more so >:P

I hope to hear from you guys soon.
Louie
aka Civa

hey everyone….

I live in San Francisco and was wondering if there was anyone here
who could help me re-sew my flags…I’m taking part in a peace
event/meditation on the 4th of July and would love to use these flags
for the event…they are the veryfirst pair I’ve ever had and would
like to use these in particular (dear to my heart)…let me know…

Louie

FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!

Not everyone received my initial posting so i am reposting it again.
Hopefully, everyone will get it.

What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented?

Certainly an excellent question, Bender, and one that has been
tossed around on Spin Tribe before. The answer, I believe, is a
complicated one that up until recently has everything to do with the
availability and perceptions of the flagger/fanner construct in
general. Initially, the flagger and fanner were considered a
minority among the homosexual majority—even in the hay day of the
60’s and 70’s (as opposed to now where flaggers are seen as a
rarity
and fanners as a scarcity). Prior to the AIDS epidemic, flaggers
and fanners practiced their art in a territorial club venue where
the sharing of information was not so accessible as the guarding of
secrets and one’s own style was seen as necessary since the
presence
of other flaggers posed an initial threat to their knowledge base
(who wants to be out done by another dancer?)
With the onset of AIDS and HIV, our numbers were vastly
diminished and for a brief while, flags and fans fell into
obscurity. It is at this point, I believe, that the mythic aspect
of the fanner/flagger emerged as the recollection of stories of the
past resurged when they were passed down from one generation to the
next. Of course, this is not to say that all knowledge was lost.
There were a few who persisted with their art (many along the lines
of a vocation) and strove to fight it from falling away into memory
altogether. Some of these individuals are members of our home here
on Spin Tribe (Candida Scott Piel, Don Baker—to name a few).
Sadly
enough, it took such a catastrophe as the AIDS epidemic to get
flaggers/fanners talking to each other and sharing their previously
coveted knowledge. The survivors undertook the vast task of re-
teaching new generations the value and appreciation of the flags and
fans and their efforts have not gone unrewarded. Just looking at
the number of members on Spin Tribe alone is testimony to such
efforts.
Now, having stated all of this, you are probably saying to
yourself—"This still does not answer my question" and you
are right
but in order for you to understand why flagging is still heavily gay-
oriented (as opposed to Poi [glow sticks]), It becomes necessary to
understand the historical dynamic at work that has shaped us all in
one way or another.
During the rise, fall, and comeback of the flaggers and fanners
in the past 35 years, the club scene itself was going through
radical changes. Gay bars, seen as objects of taboo up until the
mid 80’s, were now changing their scope and identity. The image
of
the dark, low light, seedy-character idea of the gay bar held by
most of heterosexual America was replaced with flashy glitter and
glam as more and more people came out of the closet and shared the
truths about the gay club scene. This helped to kindle a general
interest in the alternative club scene as portions of America began
to rethink its position on Homosexuality and though the gay club
scene is still regarded as risqué as the Moulin Rouge, it is
nowhere
near as taboo as it was in former years. Another major development
was the emergence of the raves—unrestricted parties with little
or
no supervision allowed for the flagger and fanner to display their
talents. But these events have only occurred in the past 15 years
or so and though to us that may seem like quite a long time, change
seldom happens overnight. So why is flagging still gay oriented?
Because of a lack of exposure in the mainstream club scene due to
its heavily diminished flagging and fanning population that is just
now beginning to replenish itself. Nowadays, flagging has made a
strong comeback—mostly among homosexuals at first, and through
the
efforts of our forefathers and mothers as well as those, like George
Jagatic, who have found new and innovative ways to incorporate the
flags as a means of exercise and choreographed dance, flagging is
slowly branching out to embrace all who are willing to undertake the
task of learning the art of flagging and fanning.
The mainstream club scene is slowly coming around to the
realization of the flagger and fanner but will probably take another
decade or so before it’s fully enveloped into the mainstream. As
is
mostly the case concerning new ideas, it takes the larger cities to
enact the trends before the whole of society accepts it as common
place and I’m sure flagging and fanning are seen more in the main
stream aspect of club life in places like New York and San Francisco
then other smaller or more conservative cities. Ultimately, as
Xavier Caylor, Nicholas Lecaut, and Jack Gerard stated similarly in
their own postings, it will take a modification in the heterosexual
perceptions of gender identity and social-sexual roles before
straight men are coming after us in droves looking for
flagging/fanning lessons—and I’m sure we all pray for that
day!

Louie

Did anyone happen to tape the Swim Suit component of the televised
event? I imagine there are some legal issues here, but it would be
great to see the flagging portion on the internet for
instructional/historical significance. Another milestone has been
crossed which should give us pause to realize just how far we’ve come
from Stonewall and before till 2004.

Simply breathtaking!

I am very excited to read the buzz on the latest flagging triumph.
Thanks for the posts.

Louie