• Straight flaggers?? (15 posts)


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  • Avatar Image 8 years, 1 month said ago:

    From Bender:

    I recently started to flag a bit, after being amazed over and over from the
    many gay clubs I go to in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale.

    I am amazed how it has not caught on with straight/whitebread/clubbers :)

    I mean come on, I still see glow sticks ….. and not only that, the
    majority of my straight clubbing friends have never seen anyone flagging.

    What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented??

    PS anyone in the Ft. Lauderdale area who is willing to teach a neophyte a
    thing or two I would be eternally gratefull

  • Avatar Image Xavier Caylor8 years, 1 month said ago:

    Neophyte,
     
    “I know straight people.”
     
    You go to clubs where half dressed gay men are at their most sexual.  Your chances of meeting a straight man hanging out are slim at best.  Probably more likely to meet a straight women than lesbian.  Now, start looking for flaggers.
    Our current generation has born a very exclusive gay men’s club scene that even shun’s it’s own.
     
    Imagine Donald Trump picking up a set of silks and spinning to Abigail: “You set me free.”  The straight male culture doesn’t exactly breed an acceptance to let go in a dance club.  Whip off your shirt and throwing rags and you’re likely to be kicked out.  Straight women are very receptive to flagging, to be fair so are many straight men.   Finding clubs that are conducive to flagging – flowing music and space… can you say RAVE.  The club kids hitting the party circuit are young and probably not palling around with the flag Mom’s and Dad’s.  What do they see: $Flag$.
     
    A form of dance that has many similarities to flagging, Spinning Poi, is a very straight thing.  Several Poi spinners have crossed over and vis-a-vis.
     
    ~Xavier
     

  • Avatar Image 8 years, 1 month said ago:

    From Nicholas Lecaut:

    Hello, Bender
    My name is Nicholas and I am a Flagger and Poi-spinner who just happens to be gay but I was taught how to spin by some straight friends in Seattle. I do see alot of spinning in Gay clubs but it is found all over the world really. You have to be looking in more then just one spot and many straight people spin. Though in Straight clubs it is not a big thing hell it’s hard enough to find a straight man who can dance in a straight club let alone flagging and even if the straight guy does flag  other straight guys might think he’s gay because it is almost always seen in gay clubs or raves. I have seen it in both places so it’s no big deal plus I think straight guys flag better because most fags just are to nelly and girly and straight men are more stiff and there moves are more mechanical.
    That my thought!
    Peace out man.
    Sincerely
    A gay spinner named Nick

    Bender <bender@…> wrote:

    I recently started to flag a bit, after being amazed over and over from the
    many gay clubs I go to in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale.

    I am amazed how it has not caught on with straight/whitebread/clubbers :)

    I mean come on, I still see glow sticks …..  and not only that, the
    majority of my straight clubbing friends have never seen anyone flagging.

    What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented??



    PS anyone in the Ft. Lauderdale area who is willing to teach a neophyte a
    thing or two I would be eternally gratefull
















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  • Avatar Image Jack Gerard8 years, 1 month said ago:

    Xavier makes some excellent points! In my experience it is the
    rave/progressive/alernative clubs that embrace the fanners & flaggers
    more. The less chi chi/formal the better for an atmosphere that is
    welcoming to flaggers. The fancy EURO clubs do not embrace flagging.

    When the atmosphere is there/and the DJ plays edgy and/or flowing
    music the staights love it when you fan or flag, and some of the
    girls & guys come right up to you to try (and I give them a lesson).
    Usually it is those that have done Poi and/or glowsticks that learn
    the quickest.
    Lately, I find that in DC it is easier to flag on any given night in
    a mixed crowd with alternative/progressive music than it is to play
    the flags on a more strictly Gay night.
    I can’t understand it, but part of this is due to space limitations,
    and the stage being off limits to anyone at Nation these days (unless
    there is prearrangement with the promotors….

    Jack Gerard Wash DC

    — In SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com, "xdcaylor" <xdcaylor@s…> wrote:
    > Neophyte,
    >
    > "I know straight people."
    >
    > You go to clubs where half dressed gay men are at their most
    sexual. Your chances of meeting a straight man hanging out are slim
    at best. Probably more likely to meet a straight women than
    lesbian. Now, start looking for flaggers.
    > Our current generation has born a very exclusive gay men’s club
    scene that even shun’s it’s own.
    >
    > Imagine Donald Trump picking up a set of silks and spinning to
    Abigail: "You set me free." The straight male culture doesn’t
    exactly breed an acceptance to let go in a dance club. Whip off your
    shirt and throwing rags and you’re likely to be kicked out. Straight
    women are very receptive to flagging, to be fair so are many straight
    men. Finding clubs that are conducive to flagging – flowing music
    and space… can you say RAVE. The club kids hitting the party
    circuit are young and probably not palling around with the flag Mom’s
    and Dad’s. What do they see: $Flag$.
    >
    > A form of dance that has many similarities to flagging, Spinning
    Poi, is a very straight thing. Several Poi spinners have crossed
    over and vis-a-vis.
    >
    > ~Xavier

  • Avatar Image louiecortez8 years, 1 month said ago:

    What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented??


     


         Certainly an excellent question, Bender, and one that has been tossed around on Spin Tribe before.  The answer, I believe, is a complicated one that up until recently has everything to do with the availability and perceptions of the flagger/fanner construct in general.  Initially, the flagger and fanner were considered a minority among the homosexual majority—even in the hay day of the 60’s and 70’s (as opposed to now where flaggers are seen as a rarity and fanners as a scarcity).  Prior to the AIDS epidemic, flaggers and fanners practiced their art in a territorial club venue where the sharing of information was not so accessible as the guarding of secrets and one’s own style was seen as necessary since the presence of other flaggers posed an initial threat to their knowledge base (who wants to be out done by another dancer?)


         With the onset of AIDS and HIV, our numbers were vastly diminished and for a brief while, flags and fans fell into obscurity.  It is at this point, I believe, that the mythic aspect of the fanner/flagger emerged as the recollection of stories of the past resurged when they were passed down from one generation to the next.  Of course, this is not to say that all knowledge was lost.  There were a few who persisted with their art (many along the lines of a vocation) and strove to fight it from falling away into memory altogether.  Some of these individuals are members of our home here on Spin Tribe (Candida Scott Piel, Don Baker—to name a few).  Sadly enough, it took such a catastrophe as the AIDS epidemic to get flaggers/fanners talking to each other and sharing their previously coveted knowledge.  The survivors undertook the vast task of re-teaching new generations the value and appreciation of the flags and fans and their efforts have not gone unrewarded.  Just looking at the number of members on Spin Tribe alone is testimony to such efforts.    


                Now, having stated all of this, you are probably saying to yourself—“This still does not answer my question” and you are right but in order for you to understand why flagging is still heavily gay-oriented (as opposed to Poi [glow sticks]), It becomes necessary to understand the historical dynamic at work that has shaped us all in one way or another. 


         During the rise, fall, and comeback of the flaggers and fanners in the past 35 years, the club scene itself was going through radical changes.  Gay bars, seen as objects of taboo up until the mid 80’s, were now changing their scope and identity.  The image of the dark, low light, seedy-character idea of the gay bar held by most of heterosexual America was replaced with flashy glitter and glam as more and more people came out of the closet and shared the truths about the gay club scene.  This helped to kindle a general interest in the alternative club scene as portions of America began to rethink its position on Homosexuality and though the gay club scene is still regarded as risqué as the Moulin Rouge, it is nowhere near as taboo as it was in former years.  Another major development was the emergence of the raves—unrestricted parties with little or no supervision allowed for the flagger and fanner to display their talents.  But these events have only occurred in the past 15 years or so and though to us that may seem like quite a long time, change seldom happens overnight.  So why is flagging still gay oriented?  Because of a lack of exposure in the mainstream club scene due to its heavily diminished flagging and fanning population that is just now beginning to replenish itself.  Nowadays, flagging has made a strong comeback—mostly among homosexuals at first, and through the efforts of our forefathers and mothers as well as those, like George Jagatic, who have found new and innovative ways to incorporate the flags as a means of exercise and choreographed dance, flagging is slowly branching out to embrace all who are willing to undertake the task of learning the art of flagging and fanning. 


         The mainstream club scene is slowly coming around to the realization of the flagger and fanner but will probably take another decade or so before it’s fully enveloped into the mainstream.  As is mostly the case concerning new ideas, it takes the larger cities to enact the trends before the whole of society accepts it as common place and I’m sure flagging and fanning are seen more in the main stream aspect of club life in places like New York and San Francisco then other smaller or more conservative cities.  Ultimately, as Xavier Caylor, Nicholas Lecaut, and Jack Gerard stated similarly in their own postings, it will take a modification in the heterosexual perceptions of gender identity and social-sexual roles before straight men are coming after us in droves looking for flagging/fanning lessons—and I’m sure we all pray for that day J!


     


    Louie


     


     




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  • Avatar Image Don Baker8 years, 1 month said ago:

    I know straight people!!   hehehe, just kidding.


    If straight guys knew what a chic magnet flags and fans really are they would all be doing it.


    You have to go into a straight club and party with them to get a sense of what these clubs are like.  Just my opinion, but most of the guys are trying to be real butch while the girls are wondering around apparently trying to avoid them.  I flagged at a straight club once and all the girls came up to me to find out what I was doing while the guys stood back and looked appalled.  Anyway, just my two cents, and I know it did not answer the original question, but I just had to share.


    Don


     

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  • Avatar Image 8 years, 1 month said ago:

    From PozPigTop:

    In a message dated 4/18/2004 4:09:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, civatateo@… writes:



    What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented??



    Well, I just have to chime in on this one.  I don’t know why it is still so gay oriented today, but in the olden days, back when we didn’t have all this fancy silk and materials. . had to spin big blocks of concrete.  Try getting the weighting right on that!  LOL



    Just kidding!  It’s finally warm and sunny so I guess I’m feeling my oats.  But, actually way back when, we used to use it as a way to get hot guys to take off their sweaty wet t-shirts.  We’d offer to fan dry them, and it was a great way to be up close and personal to some hot sweaty manmeat.  And, since (and don’t scream at me here, but this was my reality!) the flaggers/fanners were usually in close proximity of the “partying” crowd, those same hot and sweat and now shirtless men would quickly loose interest, or see something else bright and shiny. . .which helped contribute to my 3000+ t-shirt collection of the 80’s and 90’s. 



    Why not more straight folk?  Well, I was forty before I saw the first women flagging.  It’s truly incredible to see the men and women, young and chronologically enhanced, leather to vanilla, all sharing an artform that I think the gay community can, if not claim exclusively, certainly get credit for elevating the actions into one of the most incredible artforms around.



    Bryan

    New Jersey



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  • Avatar Image 8 years, 1 month said ago:

    From Carolyn Merrell:

    Hi Everyone, My name is Carolyn From Birmingham, Al and Mr. Baker I believe that you know a friend of mine named Todd, i am straight older lady that has hung out at The Station for 4 years until it closed it was there that I saw flagging for the first time and was so taken in by the beauty.  I have only been trying to learn in the last year and now its hard to go to a club around here the music is just not right.  You are so very right about the straight club scene that is why I don’t go to straight clubs

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  • Avatar Image 8 years, 1 month said ago:

    From SweethmAL1:

    Hi Carolyn,
     
    I lived in Birmingham and went to the station all the time too, it is also where I discovered flagging.  I hate that the station closed and was so excited to hear that Wayne was going to be at the old Club21 spinning on saturday nights.  He started that back in november I believe but he stopped about a month ago because they weren’t getting enough people in there to keep it going.  I think C21 is still going, just without Wayne. (that’s Wayne Arnold for those of you outside of Birmingham and don’t know him personally)
    There were lots of flaggers there the nights I went to C21, especially the first night Wayne was spinning, i’m sure they were all followers of his.  I am still learning myself but had a ball trying my best and watching the others techniques.  I haven’t been back there since Wayne left C21 but as far as I know the owners are trying to make it work, since it is the only club left in Birmingham that would accomodate “our tribe”.
    Maybe i’ll see you out there sometime.
     
    Paul

  • Avatar Image randyearwood8 years, 1 month said ago:

    — In SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Lecaut <casperguist2@y…>
    wrote:

    > straight guys flag better because most fags
    > just are too nelly and girly and straight men
    > are more stiff and their moves are more mechanical.

    Wow, was this statement just brilliant ironic humor, or are you serious?

    If you’re serious, I really don’t know what part of the statement to
    take issue with first:

    – your perception that most gay flaggers are girly and nelly

    (my experience is exactly the opposite – the flaggers I know are by
    and large also the most naturally masculine men I know! Of course, I
    pretty much only know San Francisco flaggers… );

    – your implication that there is something wrong or inferior with
    being girly or nelly

    (I am disturbed by this commonly-shared prejudice, but since we all
    more or less buy into it I’ll leave this one alone);

    – your idea that there is an easily-indentifiable style difference
    that separates straight flaggers from gay flaggers

    (I firmly belive that there is something like a gay-specific aesthetic
    or spirt or something, but so far I can’t claim I could identify it
    from the dance floor in watching a stranger’s flagging style. Even if
    I could, applying sterotypes to behaviors is very tricky business -
    hell, I’m a Kinsey freakin’ 6 and I still dance like a total straight
    boy);

    – finally, your opinion that stiff, mechanical flagging is superior
    to flowing, free-form flagging.

    (This is a matter of aesthetic choice, of course, and if the
    mechanical form is the one that gives you pleasure, so be it. Speaking
    only for myself: I’ve never been interested in participating in
    strictly "choreographed" flagging, nor do I have much interest in
    learning the compusory "school figures." I’ve already been through
    boot camp, and if I ever feel the need to add militarism to my
    spinning I’ll join a drill team. Personally, I think there is already
    quite enough limiting structure in the world – I think in fact that
    authoritarian structure is one of the defining problems of the world -
    and my freeform relationship to flagging is based precisely on the
    fact that it allows me to transend structure. This does NOT mean my
    goal is to descend into anarchy or chaos – rather, my "goal" is to
    ascend to a higher order… to create a timeless moment… a perfect
    balance and a total integration between me, the silk, the blacklights,
    and the music. I only get close enough to this goal to even glimpse
    it’s promise from time to time, never when I’m actually trying, and
    rarely do I achieve even the glimpse for more than a half a song or so
    here or there. One thing I do know: for me at least, I would never
    even come that close using "stiff, mechanical flagging." Your results,
    of course may vary.)

    Anyway, my two cents – you caught me reading SpinTribe at the end of a
    big cup of coffee, in a boisterous mood, and and with a little time on
    my hands. Thanks for inspring me to write, and take my comments as you
    will.

    Happy spinning,
    R

  • Avatar Image jimhauck8 years, 1 month said ago:

    About the whole gay/straight flagging thing:

    I didn’t really have much to say about the matter until a few people
    commented that poi is a very straight thing. I disagree. I’m a poi artist
    and instructor, I’m gay, and I’m definitely part of a gay poi community. I’d
    say that percentages of GLBT folks in the fire dancing/club poi communities
    approximately reflect those in the general population, at least in the Bay
    Area. It’s hard to say in other parts of the country because poi and the
    other fire arts are so much more popular here because of the Burning Man
    influence.

    Jim Rudoff

    P.S. For a fun pic of me spinning bunny-head poi in a very silly bunny
    harness costume at an Easter party, check out:
    http://www.juliancash.com/view/bjam2004/set4/xlarge_DSC_0435.html
    What could be more gay than that?

  • Avatar Image 8 years, 1 month said ago:

    From sandi (sass) schultz:

    ok, i’ve held off jumping on this till now. i wouldn’t consider myself
    straight by any means, but i’m not gay either. let’s just say it
    depends on the person i’m with.

    i was first introduced to poi-spinning (and hooping-dancing) when i
    started going to desert gatherings here in socal. i saw someone else
    doing it and just knew i had to learn too. i didn’t even know that
    flagging was a gay phenomemon when i first started flagging. i was
    spinning fire with some people and someone told me that she had seen
    someone else spinning rectangles of fabric. i was intrigued, went
    on-line, googled and i think i came upon some site which had a pattern
    (cforcesf – thank you to whoever put that up because without it i
    wouldn’t be flagging) . i went to the fabric store, bought supplies and
    made my first set of flags which are still one of my favorites. once
    i’d made them, i had to start figuring out how to spin them as i’d
    never actually seen it done, but because of my poi-spinning
    back-ground, it came pretty naturally. now i never go anywhere without
    my flags (at least 4 sets so other people can play too). admittedly, i
    don’t go to gay bars much and when i used to try and spin at girl-bar
    (a lesbian bar) in l.a., the security guys usually had a fit! talk
    about flaggus interruptus!
    i was flagging at a club in hollywood recently and a guy came up to me
    and said that he rarely sees women flagging – i rarely see anyone
    flagging (though i did see some guys at a party i was at in SF).more
    and more of my poi-spinning friends are giving it a whirl though- and
    they’re pretty good too. in my community (largely burners) people don’t
    care about your sexual preference – they’re just awed if you’ve got mad
    skills (and then they want you to show them how!)

    keep twirling!
    sass

    ****************************************************
    sandi (sass) schultz

    http://www.essentialsass.com
    http://www.goodvibehooptribe.com
    "i know who i was when i got up this morning,
    but i think i’ve been changed a great deal since then."

    lewis carroll

    ****************************************************
    sandi (sass) schultz
    310-804 3652

    http://www.essentialsass.com
    http://www.goodvibehooptribe.com
    "i know who i was when i got up this morning,
    but i think i’ve been changed a great deal since then."

    lewis carroll

  • Avatar Image Xavier Caylor8 years said ago:

    Jim,
    I could have made my statement a little clearer.
    I did not intend to say only straight people spin poi.
    Nor did I intend to imply that gay’s don’t spin poi.
    My comment was more about the meditative energy of centrifugal motion that
    is draws people into spinning in general. Straight men may feel more
    comfortable spinning poi as it offers a more masculine appearance when
    compared to silk flags.
    ~Xavier

    —– Original Message —–
    From: "Jim" <jim@…>
    To: <SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:30 AM
    Subject: [SpinTribe] Re: Straight flaggers??

    > About the whole gay/straight flagging thing:
    >
    > I didn’t really have much to say about the matter until a few people
    > commented that poi is a very straight thing. I disagree. I’m a poi artist
    > and instructor, I’m gay, and I’m definitely part of a gay poi community.
    I’d
    > say that percentages of GLBT folks in the fire dancing/club poi
    communities
    > approximately reflect those in the general population, at least in the Bay
    > Area. It’s hard to say in other parts of the country because poi and the
    > other fire arts are so much more popular here because of the Burning Man
    > influence.
    >
    > Jim Rudoff
    >
    > P.S. For a fun pic of me spinning bunny-head poi in a very silly bunny
    > harness costume at an Easter party, check out:
    > http://www.juliancash.com/view/bjam2004/set4/xlarge_DSC_0435.html
    > What could be more gay than that?
    >
    >
    >
    > Spin. The ritual of dynamic creative expression. Tribe. The connection of
    our spirits.
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

  • Avatar Image 8 years said ago:

    From rftek:

    hee hee,
    as a straight guy that loves flagging i want to drop my .02 in on this one. i
    think a large
    part of why you don’t see flagging in straight clubs is because most straight
    clubs are
    lame!! ; ) around here the only places you can dance with props (glow, flag,
    staff,etc) are
    rave/afterhours or gay clubs. the bouncers/owners of most straight clubs think
    you’r
    threatning the clientele if you spin stuff.

    i’m also going to say that outside the gay/rave club scene, people can’t dance.
    if they
    could they would want to expand their vocabulary by picking up a dance other
    than the
    hiphop "dancing" thats so popular around here.

    the skills necessary to create a set of flags aren’t being encourage in todays
    straight
    culture anyways, people are always a little shocked when i reveal my sewing
    skills. <lol>
    its something that’s been refined by creating flag for myself/friends. people
    are pretigous
    in all kinds of ways, alot of straight men would think that silk in of itself is
    girly or
    somesuch.

    peace yall, hope to see you on the dancefloor sometime

    -matt@texas

    — In SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com, PozPigTop@a… wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/18/2004 4:09:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
    > civatateo@h… writes:
    >
    > > What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented??
    >
    > Well, I just have to chime in on this one. I don’t know why it is still so
    > gay oriented today, but in the olden days, back when we didn’t have all this
    > fancy silk and materials. . had to spin big blocks of concrete. Try getting
    the
    > weighting right on that! LOL
    >
    > Just kidding! It’s finally warm and sunny so I guess I’m feeling my oats.
    > But, actually way back when, we used to use it as a way to get hot guys to
    take
    > off their sweaty wet t-shirts. We’d offer to fan dry them, and it was a
    > great way to be up close and personal to some hot sweaty manmeat. And, since
    (and
    > don’t scream at me here, but this was my reality!) the flaggers/fanners were
    > usually in close proximity of the "partying" crowd, those same hot and sweat
    > and now shirtless men would quickly loose interest, or see something else
    > bright and shiny. . .which helped contribute to my 3000+ t-shirt collection of
    the
    > 80’s and 90’s.
    >
    > Why not more straight folk? Well, I was forty before I saw the first women
    > flagging. It’s truly incredible to see the men and women, young and
    > chronologically enhanced, leather to vanilla, all sharing an artform that I
    think the
    > gay community can, if not claim exclusively, certainly get credit for
    elevating
    > the actions into one of the most incredible artforms around.
    >
    > Bryan
    > New Jersey
    >
    > Just in case you were born yesterday, and want to see more:
    > Wenonah, New Jersey – Detailed Profile
    > My Web Profile Page on AOL
    > http://www.asspig.com/view.php?profile=5545
    > Yahoo! Groups: cigarpics
    > http://WWW.FistPigsWorldWide.net
    > PozPigTop Yahoo! Profile

  • Avatar Image 8 years said ago:

    From Paul Wilson:

     
    A straight club’s or even a un flag friendly gay clubs security expect that you will just wait for the opportunity to injure their clientele with your flags…
     
    But I’ve found that un knowing people will just walk into your flags as your spinning them. so I can’t blame the security for their concern…. (ie lawsuit concern… )
     
    Paul


    —– Original Message —–
    From: 
    To: SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:36 PM
    Subject: [SpinTribe] Re: Straight flaggers??

    hee hee,
    as a straight guy that loves flagging i want to drop my .02 in on this one. i think a large
    part of why you don’t see flagging in straight clubs is because most straight clubs are
    lame!! ; ) around here the only places you can dance with props (glow, flag, staff,etc) are
    rave/afterhours or gay clubs. the bouncers/owners of most straight clubs think you’r
    threatning the clientele if you spin stuff.

    i’m also going to say that outside the gay/rave club scene, people can’t dance. if they
    could they would want to expand their vocabulary by picking up a dance other than the
    hiphop “dancing” thats so popular around here.

    the skills necessary to create a set of flags aren’t being encourage in todays straight
    culture anyways, people are always a little shocked when i reveal my sewing skills. <lol>
    its something that’s been refined by creating flag for myself/friends. people are pretigous
    in all kinds of ways, alot of straight men would think that silk in of itself is girly or
    somesuch.

    peace yall, hope to see you on the dancefloor sometime

    -matt@texas






    — In SpinTribe@yahoogroups.com, PozPigTop@a… wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/18/2004 4:09:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
    > civatateo@h… writes:
    >
    > > What is it that keeps flagging so gay oriented??
    >
    > Well, I just have to chime in on this one.  I don’t know why it is still so
    > gay oriented today, but in the olden days, back when we didn’t have all this
    > fancy silk and materials. . had to spin big blocks of concrete.  Try getting the
    > weighting right on that!  LOL
    >
    > Just kidding!  It’s finally warm and sunny so I guess I’m feeling my oats. 
    > But, actually way back when, we used to use it as a way to get hot guys to take
    > off their sweaty wet t-shirts.  We’d offer to fan dry them, and it was a
    > great way to be up close and personal to some hot sweaty manmeat.  And, since (and
    > don’t scream at me here, but this was my reality!) the flaggers/fanners were
    > usually in close proximity of the “partying” crowd, those same hot and sweat
    > and now shirtless men would quickly loose interest, or see something else
    > bright and shiny. . .which helped contribute to my 3000+ t-shirt collection of the
    > 80’s and 90’s. 
    >
    > Why not more straight folk?  Well, I was forty before I saw the first women
    > flagging.  It’s truly incredible to see the men and women, young and
    > chronologically enhanced, leather to vanilla, all sharing an artform that I think the
    > gay community can, if not claim exclusively, certainly get credit for elevating
    > the actions into one of the most incredible artforms around.
    >
    > Bryan
    > New Jersey
    >
    > Just in case you were born yesterday, and want to see more:
    >  Wenonah, New Jersey – Detailed Profile 
    >  My Web Profile Page on AOL
    > http://www.asspig.com/view.php?profile=5545
    >  Yahoo! Groups: cigarpics
    >      http://WWW.FistPigsWorldWide.net
    >  PozPigTop Yahoo! Profile



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